Woe unto who?

Ray Comfort's orriginal post

“I just wanted to thank you for the kind word about atheists. Glad to see there is one Christian here that can recognize that we're just good people like everyone else. Thanks for the compliment. I have no problem admitting that Atheists can be good people . . .. I think that men who don't have God can be good, normal people, just not perfect. Thanks again for the kind words.”


It deeply concerns me when I hear a professing Christian telling an atheist that he is a good person. There is a reason for my concern. Jesus said that there is no one good but God (see Mark 10:18). Anyone who says that human beings are good is calling Jesus a liar. My concern isn’t just that the atheist is being confirmed in his deception, but it makes me doubt the genuine nature of Christian’s salvation, because it seems that he has no biblical knowledge of sin himself. This deception comes when the Law is not used to bring the knowledge of sin (see Romans 3:19, 20), and to show sin to be “exceedingly sinful” (see Romans 7:13).

Not surprisingly, he believes that preaching the gospel simply means to tell people “Jesus loves you,” something for which there is no precedent in Scripture. Wherever the love of Christ is preached, it’s almost always in direct co-relation to the cross (see John 3:16, Romans 5:8, etc.), and the cross makes no sense without mentioning sin, and sin makes no sense without preaching the Law, for "sin is transgression of the Law" (see 1 John 3:4).

I thought I was a good person until I understood that in God's Book, "good" means to be morally perfect. The only just rule by which we can measure our morality is by the Ten Commandments. It was through the moral Law that I found that God considers lust to be adultery, and hatred to be murder. When I measured myself by that standard I realised am not good. At all.

It’s also not surprising that the atheist has kind words for the Christian. This is because he is not offended by his message. However, to fail to warn sinners of the terrible consequences of sin (damnation in Hell), and to instead tell them that they are good people, is the ultimate betrayal. Jesus warned, “Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets” (Luke 6:26).


My Response:

See, Ray, not only did you take what I said to mean something entirely other than what it was communicating, you went on to completely put words in my mouth about what the Gospel is.

It deeply concerns me when I hear a professing Christian telling an atheist that he is a good person. There is a reason for my concern. Jesus said that there is no one good but God (see Mark 10:18). Anyone who says that human beings are good is calling Jesus a liar. My concern isn’t just that the atheist is being confirmed in his deception, but it makes me doubt the genuine nature of Christian’s salvation, because it seems that he has no biblical knowledge of sin himself. This deception comes when the Law is not used to bring the knowledge of sin (see Romans 3:19, 20), and to show sin to be “exceedingly sinful” (see Romans 7:13).

Firstly, I never said that it is possible for any one to meet God's standards without God. You even quoted me as saying that people can't be perfect without God. It's right there in your post!

I think that men who don't have God can be good, normal people, just not perfect.

The problem, Ray, is I wasn't talking to you. So I didn't use your language. Good to you is not the same as good to them otherwise, you wouldn't have posted this riddiculousness. (I believe the word Paul would have chosen in this situation is "Scubalon.")

When I say good to [anonymous], he understands that I mean "Beneficial to society, kind, giving, philantrhopic, etc." If I want to communicate to him the thing that you heard when you read "Good," the word I would have chosen would be "Righteous."

And no one can be Righteous without God. I've never ever said otherwise.

Now, if I wanted to communicate to you "Beneficial to society, kind, giving, philantrhopic, etc."; I might have chosen a group of words that communicate that they are not righteous, that they are without God, but that they are not societal ills. Maybe I would have chosen to say "Good Atheist people," but then you would have taken that and made it into something that it's not also, wouldn't you?

I have stated many times, where you have proofread and posted, that it is impossible for humans to recieve salvation on their own. I dare you to tell me where I said otherwise.


Not surprisingly, he believes that preaching the gospel simply means to tell people “Jesus loves you,” something for which there is no precedent in Scripture. Wherever the love of Christ is preached, it’s almost always in direct co-relation to the cross (see John 3:16, Romans 5:8, etc.), and the cross makes no sense without mentioning sin, and sin makes no sense without preaching the Law, for "sin is transgression of the Law" (see 1 John 3:4).

Secondly, haven't I always spoken about both halves of the gospel? That the Law is one half, Grace is the other, and that to preach one without the other is a false gospel? I have ABSOLUTELY advocated emphasizing one half over the other when the situation calls for it, even the law over grace!

I dare you to go back through your blog and find the post where I say "You don't have to repent of your sins." No quote mining allowed. If you can find it, point me to it, and post a link to it so that I can see, I'll buy your next DVD.


Lastly, you should look at the NAS translation for that particular verse from 1 John, because those translators handled it much better.

Sin is not transgretion, but transgretion is always sin.

A Transgretion (Anomia) is breaking a specific law that God has laid out.

A Sin (Hamartia) Is simply "missing the mark;" being less than perfect.

However, Anomia can also describe the state of being ignorant of the law.

So a better translation of that passage, one that doesn't confuse the words "transgretion" and "sin," is found in the NAS translation

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.


A few other minor things I have wrong with that post.

However, to fail to warn sinners of the terrible consequences of sin (damnation in Hell), and to instead tell them that they are good people, is the ultimate betrayal.

If you think that I haven't Told [anonymous] that the dying without Christ will send him to Hell, then you have not been paying attention.


My concern isn’t just that the atheist is being confirmed in his deception, but it makes me doubt the genuine nature of Christian’s salvation, because it seems that he has no biblical knowledge of sin himself. This deception comes when the Law is not used to bring the knowledge of sin (see Romans 3:19, 20), and to show sin to be “exceedingly sinful” (see Romans 7:13).

Do you even read the posts that you "moderate?" Or do you let some one else do it for you and then just thumb through them later to find the ones that you can turn and twist into something you can complain about?


Jesus warned, “Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets” (Luke 6:26).

Yes, he did, but we can see clearly that the only way to make me fit that category is to take what I have said out of it's context, change it around, and then turn it itno something that it isn't.

I've been intimidated by some skilled intimidators, Ray. You ain't one of them.

What am I doing?

Early this past semester, I had decided that I was going to get a head start on seminary. I was going to actually study my faith. What happened to that?

Amanda and I went to see "The Happening" with our campus minister, his wife, and a married couple who are alumnus of our campus ministry. Ok movie, but not Shyamalans best, btw. Afterward, we went out and ate and talked and goofed off.

Well, when you get theology nerds together, it's hard to avoid a theology conversation. And three of them were graduates from Emanuel School of Religion. Way out of my legue, but I understand more than I used to.

Any way, my campus minister told me about a teacher that he had. He donated his books to ESR's library when they were getting started. It was like 5,000 volumes. And that's not all that he had.

He had a book shelf in every room and in his hallway. Full. He had a fire proof room with every wall linned with bookshelves and rows of bookshelves in the middle; a literal actual library in his house.

His belief was that if you're serious about studying, then you put your money into it. Tithing goes to the church, and another tithe goes into stocking your personal library.

Another of his teachers graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary with a degree in The Bible. Literally. He has a Doctorate in Old Testament, and a Doctorate in New Testament from Princeton. Wrote his discertation in one week on a manual typewriter.

I've got four or five books. And I haven't read one of them all the way through. I've all but finished my Metzger book, but I managed to let myself get side tracked. And when I read the stuff from Metzger's book, I manage to forget it as soon as I close it because I'm not doing anything with it. It's just in my head for a time.

I will probably never be the guy that writes his discertation in one week. There are certain genetic limitations on intelligence, and while my family's got brains, we ain't got alien technoledgy implanted in our skulls. I'll probably never be the guy who has a personal library that rivals Princeton's. But, I can be the guy that I had planned on being, that I had claimed that God is calling me to be. Not a genius, but serious.

I sit around and get bored. I get bored. How? If I'm doing what I say I am, how do I get bored? I play the same video games over and over again (because I can't afford new ones). I check my email about 30 times a day; not because I'm expecting something important, but because I enjoy talking to people on Ray Comfort's weblog about theolog. Many may think that this is an honorable endevor for one who is doing the things I say I'm trying to do, but is it really? What comes out of it? No one's comming to Christ on the internet. Especially if their image of Christianity comes from his blog. Ray's a bit conservative for my taste, and my dislike of his style doesn't mean anything of great value, but there are some REAL NUT JOBS there.

My campus minster once showed me his class notes from one of his M.Div. classes. The test is entirely concepts and ideas. EVERYTHING was fill in the blank, no word banks and short answer. No multiple choice. No true/false. My school is not likely to prepare me for that level of study. We can barely call our collection of books a real library, for cryin' out loud.

So what am I doing?

Ok, so I have a confession to make...

I'm not a published musician. The only music I do are when I'm on the worship band, and in my school's concert choir. That's about it.

What I mean by the title is that even though I'm under an assumed name here, I'm making every attempt to be absolutely real without giving away any identifying information.

Sorry for the mix up, Jason.

As a side note, if I ever did fire performances, I would take Rob Penn as a stage name for that. I'm not QUITE good enough for that yet...

May it be said of me

that he loved the same way a fierce warrior fights
that he loved the same way a skilled musician plays
that he loved the same way a master teacher teaches
that he loved the same way a talented artist creates
that he loved the same way an intelligent scholar studies

If I can't be remembered as intelligent, talented, masterful, skilled, or fierce, then let it be known that I loved

It seems to me that there's plenty of the rest

So here it is!

I've not only got it on my blog now, but it's up in my Google Docs as well. Which is awesome, because I am loving Google Docs.

Any way, I have a couple of things to say before the main event:

1) I'm terrible at English. This is my third time in English 101, and it's taken me that long to get it right. Don't expect this to be an earth shattering work.

B) I had a teeny tine word count limit, so I couldn't put all of the things in here that I wanted. I had to cut it down to "Here's what to do," and leave most of the "Here's why you should do it," on the cutting room floor.

Well, any way, here it is...


Defining the Blanks to be Filled

In America, there are few people who are unfamiliar with The Bible. For better or for worse, our nation is saturated with its influences on Western culture. I say for better or for worse, because I must admit that there are adverse effects that the Bible has had on our culture. However, most, if not all of these adversities have sprung from misconceptions brought on by a lack of context. Reading biblical stories out of context changes the meanings and messages that the authors originally intended to communicate. In order to place these stories back into their defining contexts, we must know the author, his intended audience, and the bigger picture that the lessons of the Bible fit into. This is not merely a matter of “filling in the blanks,” it is a matter of figuring out what exactly the blanks are.

If you don’t know the author, then you can’t fully know his message. When the author writes, he writes through a set of assumptions and world views that aren’t necessarily conscious. These assumptions and world views are some of the blanks that we, as responsible students, must define, because if we do not define them we will always read his writings through the lenses of our own schema. Ben Witherington III, renowned theologian and professor at Asbury Theological Seminary says this of such assumptions, “To the extent that each human being is a product of a particular environment, culture, language group, education, and social and religious upbringing, this assumption is manifestly false,” (17). We can begin to understand this author’s schema, the way he views the world around him and the assumptions he makes about it, by learning about his history. You should understand where he’s coming from, where he is when he wrote the work, where he intends to be in the future, and where he actually ends up. His experiences will shape the way that he views the world, just like our experiences shape the way we view the world. The author’s writing styles and literary tools will also influence the way we understand his work. Artistic writing styles, such as poetry and “once upon a time” type stories, do not always necessitate a literal interpretation. It is especially important to know the author’s culture and beliefs, as these will clearly have the most effect on what he says and how he says it.

The same way you know the author, you must know his audience. The author will understand his audience because the author is always tied to his audience in some intimate way. Moses wrote to the Hebrew people, and he was their leader. Paul wrote to the Gentile people, and he shared intimate ties with them through his Roman citizenship, Greek education, and the fact that he was raised in a gentile city outside of Palestine. Such ties between the author and their intended audience are present in nearly every area of the books of the Bible. That understanding of the audience is another blank that we must define. Bruce Metzger, who was a professor emeritus for Princeton Theological Seminary and widely recognized as the leading expert in canonical studies, says, “It is not too much to say that every serious attempt to understand the Scriptures must be historically oriented. Only by being acquainted with the political, social, and religious background of the biblical era can the student understand the allusions to the contemporary culture that the biblical writers assume will be obvious to their readers.” (13). It is important to understand the history of the audience like it is important to understand the history of the author. Where did they come from? Where are they at the time they receive this book or letter? Where do they want to be in their future and where are they actually going to end up? The answers we find to these questions will influence how we interpret the message they were given. More importantly than these, in Metzger’s opinion, is the cultural context and religious beliefs of the day. He says, “Although it is needful for the student of the New Testament to know something of the political and social conditions of Palestinian Judaism outlined in the previous chapter, it is even more necessary to be acquainted with the cultural and religious background of Jesus and his contemporaries,” (43). While it is clear that Metzger wrote this specifically about the New Testament, it is true universally throughout the Bible, and will change the way we view the work at hand.

Once you know the author and his audience, the message is still meaningless unless you fir them and the scripture you are looking at into an even bigger context. The passage of scripture you are looking at needs to be placed into the context of the rest of the author’s writings. Does it blend well with them, or is there inconsistency and conflict? If there is inconsistency, what is it and may there be a reason or purpose for it? What does it reveal about the author’s beliefs? This will change the way we interpret the message even more. Similarly, it is important to place it into the context of the entire Bible, and not just the author’s contribution to it. After all of this is completed and you have in your mind a clear and accurate interpretation of the message that was meant to be conveyed, there is one final and most important question to ask. There is one final blank that has been left undefined. “What does this mean to me?” The world we live in today is most different from the world of the biblical era. How might these differences affect the way we apply the message to our own lives? This question is the most important of all, because unless we apply what we are intended to learn, then the purpose of the message is utterly lost on us.

If a student will follow this short and simple guide, they will come a great deal closer to placing the books of the Bible into their all important context. If their readings lack the proper context, then they will find themselves in lack of the proper meanings and messages, because context is what defines their meaning. It is the responsibility of the student to find out this context, and find out the meaning that it gives these stories and messages.




Works Cited


Metzger, Bruce M. The New Testament: It’s Background, Growth, and Content. Nashville: Abingdon Press, 2003


Witherington III, Ben. The Paul Quest: The Renewed Search for the Jew of Tarsus.

Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1998

So, I may be a Christian...

But I've got this problem with procrastination.

I have the paper, it's on my jumpdrive, and it will be up on this blogg before I go to sleep tonight.

The only reason I post a blog to tell you that is because now I'm obligated to do it.

^_^

So, I wrote a paper in English

It's about how to responsibly interperet the Bible. My teacher thinks I'm the most amazing thing ever, and so I cam pretty much do what I want and get away with it, including writing about God if I do it right.

Like, on one of the tests, I didn't know the answer, so I put a sarcastic kind of joke instead. I still got credit for that.

Any way, the highest possibl score was a 110. And I got a 109.

She was handing the papers back and sayd that my paper was excelent and told the other students to read it if they want an example of how it's done.